{"id":262,"date":"2010-01-29T21:54:24","date_gmt":"2010-01-29T21:54:24","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/mixermuse.com\/blog\/?p=262"},"modified":"2014-11-15T10:12:02","modified_gmt":"2014-11-15T17:12:02","slug":"the-greater-good-and-scott-roeder","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.mixermuse.com\/blog\/abortion\/the-greater-good-and-scott-roeder\/","title":{"rendered":"The Greater Good and Scott Roeder"},"content":{"rendered":"

It seems to me that anti-abortion folks have an untenable position if they hold to the idea that some killing is ok.\u00a0 I have debated abortion with many anti-choice folks.\u00a0 I have never found one yet that took the position that killing any human for any reason was wrong.\u00a0 Scott Roeder took the position that killing was ok in the case of self-defense or to protect \u201cunborn children\u201d.\u00a0 Most anti-abortion folks will not go along with killing someone to protect \u201cunborn children\u201d.\u00a0\u00a0 However, most anti-abortion folks do believe in the concept of a \u201cjust war\u201d and capital punishment.\u00a0 In both of these cases they believe that it is ok for humans to kill others.\u00a0<\/p>\n

In their view, God is good.\u00a0 God is served in the case of a \u201cjust war\u201d or capital punishment.\u00a0 Therefore, killing in the case of a \u201cjust war\u201d or capital punishment is the greater good \u2013 the greater good not by man\u2019s standards but by God\u2019s standards.\u00a0 Many anti-abortion folks that have been around the block tend to resist arguing their point on purely religious grounds since they have been burned too many times with that argument.\u00a0 They tend to take the emotional bashing, shame and pity method to make their point. \u00a0\u00a0Nevertheless, when push comes to shove, their beliefs are really grounded in their religion.\u00a0 In any case, the \u201cgreater good\u201d argument works whether they are atheists are theists.\u00a0 Since they believe that a greater good is served by a \u201cjust war\u201d or capital punishment, the question is, \u201cWhy isn\u2019t the greater good served by murdering an abortion doctor \u2013 if you believe that a fetus is a baby?\u201d\u00a0 How would you draw the line at saying killing an abortion doctor is wrong yet killing is ok in the case of a \u201cjust war\u201d or capital punishment?\u00a0<\/p>\n

I suppose if you are a theist you could maintain that the former is not God\u2019s will while the latter is.\u00a0 This argument will show itself to have more \u201csubtleties\u201d as in the case of Judas Iscariot cited further down.\u00a0 So God appears to be more interested in killing \u201cunjust\u201d folks whether in war or in crime.\u00a0 However, if you think that killing \u201cbabies\u201d is murder, wouldn\u2019t you also believe that it is \u201cunjust\u201d?\u00a0 I suppose that if you question why one \u201cunjust\u201d act justifies humans killing humans but another \u201cunjust\u201d act does not, the theist would proclaim that we cannot know the mind of God.\u00a0 But if we cannot know the mind of God how can<\/strong> they know the mind of God?\u00a0 Well, they would say \u201cfaith\u201d.\u00a0 At this point nothing is left to be said since to question this \u201cfaith\u201d means that you have no faith or at least not the \u201ccorrect\u201d faith.\u00a0 In any case, it appears that there are various shades of faith.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Scott Roeder\u2019s faith told him it was ok to murder Dr. George Tiller.\u00a0 The anti-abortion mainstream would disavow this type of faith and wash their hands of it (remind you of Pontius Pilate).\u00a0 However, by intentionally slicing the kinds of faith so thin, don\u2019t they share some complicity in this?\u00a0 I have heard many of them (including Rod Dreher) write that they are not heartbroken by the death of Dr. George Tiller but condemn the action of Scott Roeder.\u00a0 They have a very tight line to walk.\u00a0 Ultimately, it can only be defended by appealing to their correct \u201cfaith\u201d.\u00a0 My question is. \u201cHow is this different from radical, violent Islam?\u201d\u00a0 They believe that they have the correct \u201cfaith\u201d as well.\u00a0 If everything boils down to the right \u201cfaith\u201d then on the surface of it there is absolutely no difference.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Here is another point \u2013 if you believe that Iraq or Afghanistan was wrong then you are in effect saying that those wars were not \u201cjust wars\u201d and that your vote for the Republicans and President Bush was complicit in killing unjustly \u2013 or, murder (see http:\/\/mixermuse.com\/blog\/2010\/01\/02\/nearly-every-member-of-congress-voted-for-intervention-in-iraq\/<\/a> ).\u00a0 As anti-choice, the only way to justify your vote for President Bush is to insist that both wars were just.\u00a0 This would also include all the post-born women and children that were killed in these wars which no one would contest are not human\u00a0and that the vast majority was innocent and killed unjustly.\u00a0 I suppose this also would boil down to not having the correct knowledge of God.\u00a0 The point is, once one starts down this road the fine distinctions get finer and finer.\u00a0 When a person like Scott Roeder can\u2019t get too fine with his logical prowess he just believes that he is exercising his faith by killing Dr. Tiller.\u00a0 He thinks he is simply braver with his faith than most Christians.\u00a0 He has all kinds of rationalizations about his virtuous motives.\u00a0 Most Christians that disavow his action would also suggest that God can use evil for his glory as in the case of Judas Iscariot.\u00a0 \u00a0<\/p>\n

Judas Iscariot betrayed Christ.\u00a0 Here is what the Bible says concerning Judas:<\/p>\n

I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill the scripture: ‘He who shares my bread has lifted up his heel against me\u2019.<\/strong> \u00a0John 13:18<\/p>\n

While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. <\/strong>\u00a0John 17:12<\/p>\n

\u00a0Jesus replied, “The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. \u00a0The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”\u00a0 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, “Surely not I, Rabbi?” \u00a0Jesus answered, “Yes, it is you.\u201d<\/strong>\u00a0 Mathew 26:23-25<\/p>\n

But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. \u00a0The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to that man who betrays him.<\/strong>\u00a0 Luke 22: 21-22<\/p>\n

Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: “They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10and they used them to buy the potter’s field, as the Lord commanded me.<\/strong>\u00a0 Mathew 27:9-10<\/p>\n

and said, “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus<\/strong>\u00a0 Acts 1:16<\/p>\n

“For,” said Peter, “it is written in the book of Psalms, ” ‘May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,’ and, ” ‘May another take his place of leadership.<\/strong>\u00a0 Acts 1:20<\/p>\n

Judas was condemned for betraying Jesus and yet he was fulfilling the will of God.\u00a0 This is how many anti-choice folks view the act of Scott Roeder.\u00a0<\/p>\n

It seems to me that at some point we have to just state that \u201cfaith\u201d and rationality contradict each other and \u201cfaith\u201d wins at the cost of logic.\u00a0 Even Kierkegaard who thought that faith was the absolute passion of pinning your eternal happiness on the contradiction of the God-Man would not pitch faith against logic.\u00a0 He would simply suggest that logic is irrelevant for faith.\u00a0 The square is not a circle in faith; it is just not relevant to that distinction.\u00a0 However, in the case I am making, faith must conquer rationality and deem logic illogical by the \u201clogic\u201d of faith so the square is a circle.\u00a0 Faith is another kind of logic that can contradict logic.\u00a0 It is sort of like saying A is not A because of B.\u00a0 If you have faith in B then your argument is proved correct.\u00a0 However, many folks do not hear the voice of God in this proposition – only the confusion of man.<\/p>\n

Christians still kill the innocent unjustly and still condemn those that they think do the same.\u00a0 I believe this is the definition of a hypocrite.\u00a0 It also shares a nasty complicity in the evil it condemns as the prophecy of God also shares an insidious role in the betrayal of Christ.\u00a0 Thus, it seems to me that the violent history that marks the history of Christianity, the hatred of the inquisition, the genocide of the crusades still yells much louder in the anti-abortionists than the words of their Christ, \u201cThe eye is the lamp of your body; when your eye is clear, your whole body also is full of light; but when it is bad, your body also is full of darkness.\u00a0 Then watch out that the light in you is not darkness.<\/strong>\u201d\u00a0 Luke 11:34-35<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

It seems to me that anti-abortion folks have an untenable position if they hold to the idea that some killing is ok.\u00a0 I have debated abortion with many anti-choice folks.\u00a0 I have never found one yet that took the position that killing any human for any reason was wrong.\u00a0 Scott Roeder took the position that […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3,12,16,18,19],"tags":[234,54,185,200],"class_list":["post-262","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-abortion","category-myths-exposed","category-politics","category-republicans","category-war","tag-abortion","tag-christian","tag-republican","tag-scott-roeder"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.mixermuse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/262","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.mixermuse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.mixermuse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.mixermuse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/4"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.mixermuse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=262"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/www.mixermuse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/262\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3931,"href":"https:\/\/www.mixermuse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/262\/revisions\/3931"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.mixermuse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=262"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.mixermuse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=262"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.mixermuse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=262"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}